Suggestion: Old School IFR - Berlin Airlift

[Lee Shafter]

As an OLD former pilot, the approach I enjoyed most was the old GCA or PAR radar approach. ILS was cool, VOR was ok, and ADF you would occasionally get lucky, but a GCA in marginal weather when guided only by a human voice was almost magic. Here's my proposal. Recreate the Berlin Airlift.

 

1) Use the old Celle Airfield (ETHC) to Tempelholf (EDDI) Note: one of the real corridors

2) Use GPS DIRECT for mapping purposes.

3) Prop planes only and if you are REALLY cool use the old default DC-3 Army Surplus model.

4) Max Altitude 7000/8000

5) Weather set to 200ft ceiling 1/2 mile vis, fog rain

6) Establish know fixes for holding patterns.

7) maybe have 1 pilot fly a P-51 and occasionally "buzz" aircraft (the Russians did this)

 

Pretty good actual PAR approach:

 

I think younger pilots would enjoy old school IFR and the controllers would be busier than a one legged man at an ass kickin contest.

[Gilles Lagace]

Copied into the Event Director's magic box ... :) Be prepared for an "HISTORIA CHALLENGE"

[Guest Cameron Laramee]

I like the idea of a historic event like this, but I don't think the PAR approaches will work. First of all, the FSX radar doesn't give us the amount of information we would need to guide an aircraft on a PAR. In the real world, the controllers can see separate displays which show the aircraft relative to the final approach course and the glideslope. In FSX, we only have a standard radar screen which would leave us to guess where the glide slope is, and, depending on the airport, the final approach course may not even be depicted. Because of the limitations of FSX, none of our controllers or pilots are trained for PAR's unless they control/fly in the real world. Also, a PAR approach requires one controller/frequency per aircraft; during a BVA event, besides controller staffing issues, that would mean a ridiculous amount of holding. With the amount of traffic we normally have during an event, we would probably have to run approaches (and holds) for about 5 hours to get everyone in.

Perhaps we can create a modified version of the event which uses FSX friendly procedures but still retains the historic theme.

[Cody Outten]

I like the idea, but it does need some tweaking. I like to fly military aircraft and it would be cool to see the sky filled with ww2 era planes. I would volunteer to fly that p-51.

[Guest chuck]

oh yea... I'm totally into that! if you schedule it, we'll make it a priority for United Regional pilots to participate. I'd just love to replicate the Berlin Airlift ... 1 minute separation? Old school aircraft and navigation? Awesome!!

[Guest chuck]

Wow, I just got really excited about this idea. I wonder if we could approach the concept as "Uncle Sam Needs Pilots!! Civilian BVA pilots have been drafted to war to participate in the Berlin Airlift"

 

I could envision (especially with United Regional pilots) that we have 6 weeks to train on our WWII era aircraft before being shipped off to England to fly in the lift. I could envision new military callsigns, perhaps even having to fly ourselves to England to pick up our cargo aircraft, and then running traditional dispatches over to Berlin over the period of a week or two. I might suggest that we place a restriction that any BVA pilots who choose to operate in Europe during that two week period MUST fly traditional era aircraft.

 

I would be totally into this, and would be interested in serving on point to organize it if needed.

[Cody Outten]

I would be happy to participate also. I would love to fly escort in a p-51 or some other ww2 fighter.

[Larry Wilkinson]

Hell yea, I'm in...................

[Gilles Lagace]

Let's prepare the briefings with our charts ... EDDB, Berlin Schönefeld. - with this secret CODED link for the lift! :ugeek:

 

http://skyvector.com/?ll=52.39437467834814,13.469238274379517&chart=301&zoom=10

 

BERLIN AIRSPACE IS CENTERED ON THE MAP

[Guest chuck]

Gents - - UAR is prepping now with a re issuance of Project Connie and the Lockheed Starliner. While the Starliner wasn't exactly used in the Berlin Airlift, we have enough experience with that aircraft as an airline that it's a decent fit. Our Starliner comes from a website http://CalClassic.com which features a tremendous assortment of freeware classic propliners. Included on that site are many DC aircraft and others. If you are interested in finding a classic propliner or cargo aircraft to use in the Berlin Airlift, that website would be an excellent resource. Enjoy!

[Guest Max Enis]

Hey Chuck, if there is anything needed from the Pilot's Affairs side of this event let me know. I'm sure me you and Gilles can sit down get it going!

[Gilles Lagace]

Hey Chuck, if there is anything needed from the Pilot's Affairs side of this event let me know. I'm sure me you and Gilles can sit down get it going!

 

Hi Everyone, thanks to Chuck and Max and all participating members with suggestions and ideas. I will coordinate directly with you on this subject.

 

I'm actually working on a structure for the Berlin Airlift. FSX is far from having an accurate "historical" database for its airports and waypoints around the airlift corridors. With this in mind and using a corridors' chart, I found in Google, the airlift is possible. I am working on making flight plan routes that will match closely those cargo runs that were active during almost 11 months, in 1948 and 1949, to and from Berlin, Germany.

 

The help from ATC, manning "radar" will be much interesting. Finding historical facts to help understand the actual aeronautical and political challenge and publishing some links in this forums is on the way.

 

Furthermore, I have an idea to add value to this endeavour, I will discuss it in an A-TEAM meeting. There is something in there that could interest BVATC members, who are always so much willing in experiencing a group effort ... so were the British, American, French and Canadian military and Allies who wanted to relieve Berliners from the blockade instigated around Berlin in those long gone years, by Soviet politics.

 

Auf Wiedersehen in der Luft! - See you in the air!

[Gilles Lagace]

Berlin airlift TIMELINE : http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/airlift/timeline/timeline2.html :ugeek: and more, following some links from the home page ... http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/airlift/

[Gilles Lagace]

REPORT FROM A PRELIMIMANRY DISCUSSION OF THE BERLIN AIRLIFT CONCEPT

 

The A-TEAM has had a very welcoming discussion about the Berlin Airlift event suggestion.

 

Considering that we have a very busy event schedule going late into the month of March 2013 with the Flight Sim Con going on, and also the Southwest Getaway, we are planning to continue fine tuning the concept of the historical Airlift.

 

So please stay tuned for further discussion in this thread about the way you see this event develop into a succesful one. The "Event Director's Office" will come up later in spring with a more precise "mission briefing".

 

Hoping that you will have time to master those vintage planes you may have in your hangar, and update your historical awareness of the Airlift. :ugeek: :)

[Cody Outten]

Gillies, I heard that some aircraft had fighters flying escort. We aught to have some members flying escort for the event to increase realism.