Event Proposal

[Guest Shawn Forster]

So I am watching this show called Most Extreme Airports on History Channel and one of the airports showed a very interesting approach that is an actual real world challenge. This is especially true for Heavy pilots. Approximately 200 yards from the beginning of the only runway at San Diego International Lindbergh Airport is a >~50' parking garage. Not only that the city center of San Diego is nearby which contains plenty of sky scrapers to maneuver around.

 

I think this would make for an interesting event.

 

 

[Guest Shawn Forster]

Another is Kai Tak Airport in Hong Kong, China. Apparently there is no straight on approach into the only runway. You cant fly down over the mountain, you have to fly parallel then make a sharp turn requiring a a VFR landing. They said you have to aim for a checkered board on a mountain side then begin your turn which allows you to get a visual on the runway. Then its so short that most Heavy planes down even get thier wings level until maybe 300' to touchdown!!!! :shock:

 

 

[Erik VanderWerf]

Whats the actual objective though? Sounds fun for the pilot to do one or two approaches, but it feels like a PP type thing.

 

As for VHHX, the airport is closed (and at the moment is being developed into harbor and park land) so to do anything involving that would go against RL (not that bad). On the AVSIM library I have an ILS approach into Kai Tak, feel free to download it. It will work even if you have a payware add on.

[Guest Shawn Forster]

PP?

[Guest Brandon Carter]

PP?

 

Pack the Pattern

[Guest donovan48]

Kai Tak has been closed since 1998 :P

[Guest Eric Bussinger]

I have some airports I have been wanting to fly to/from in an event for a while. Since you started this thread, I will just continue with ideas on this thread unless OP wants me to remove them. The airport I would really really like to see in an event would be Denver(KDEN). Have if fully controlled, with an insane amount of traffic departing and arrive every minute. :)(Well I am allowed to dream can't I) I would really like to see Denver. Another airport I would like to see is KMCI. I would like to see more events where the controlled airports are farther away. Maybe like 300NM or so. We could also have another airport in between to two farthest airports so that people who don't want to fly 300nm doesn't have too. Its just an idea.

[Dan Perrone]

We go to Denver every winter, and one of the events has a fully staffed Denver International. As for the 300nm trip, we have what is called the Domestic Journey for that purpose.

[Guest Eric Bussinger]

I understand that Dan, But I was suggesting that we have more events like that. Or maybe have more Domestic Journey events. Right now the DJ events are so far and in between that we do not have many oppurtunities to fly a fair distance while being controlled. I am curious to see how many people would favor this to see if it is actually worth doing or I am the only one who would want it.

[Guest Lucas Kaelin]

While I'm all about events, I don't care for the DJ. There's no real challenge for the controllers aside from frequency control. There's not much challenge for pilots in cruise flying straight and level on the preplanned route. It's basically a long distance one way regional circuit. I'd much rather see another type of event than a DJ, but it's not often I fly anything that actually gets to cruise for long distance either.

 

I'd rather see a hub turn type of event. Pick a major airline hub and staff it, let pilots fly in from any and all airports, and then turn around and depart for any other airport. Ideally the first 90mins would be arrivals, with the following 90mins for departures. If you want to fly LAX-CLT then you have to plan your LAX departure to arrive with the rest of the arrivals, if you depart DCA-CLT you can leave later, or RDU-CLT basically as soon as the controllers log in. This would provide more realistic complexity for controllers and pilots. I guess this is more like the HTC but less structured and easier to do without having to staff all of the outlying airports. It also allows the "Heavy and High" group to plan a little more closely the route and time they fly.

[Guest Eric Bussinger]

I like that idea Shyflyguy. It would be nice if we where able to get enough controllers on BVA where it would be possible to staff 3-8 airports for events. This would make it a challenge for the controllers, because planes will be coming and going all over. This would give clearence guys more expiernce instead of issuing the same clearence over and over. Right now I don't think we have enought controllers to do this, and I am not sure even if we do have enough controllers right now, with everybody controlling would we have enough pilots? I know that the HTC is like this, but I think we could do better and on a more regular bases. It would take a lot of work, and a lot of controllers. IE. Maybe we could have KBOS,KJFK,KLGA,Chicago, and some other places staffed. This will give the pilots many options. The guys who like to fly a little farther have there option, while the guys who like shorter hops have that option. I would like to be able to have many options, where the everybody won't fly the same route. I think this idea would be great, for the future of Boston Virtual ATC. I believe this would expand BVA and help it grow to be even bigger than the great orginazation that we have today.

We need to get more ATC guys interested in BVA. The more we have the more this orginzation can expand. Lets do something new that has never been done in BVA. Lets expand and rise to be even better than we are today. That is my speal. I will be willing to discuss this if anybody would like to. If enough people like this idea (which for some reason my ideas are usually rejected haha) I would be able to work tto make this idea possible. I know this would require a lot of work and effort but I think it can be done. Esspically if we get many many more people into BVA. I think this would promote BVA and help to get new members. I would really like everybodys opinions on this not just a few like usual.

[Guest Lucas Kaelin]

It would be nice if we where able to get enough controllers on BVA where it would be possible to staff 3-8 airports for events. This would make it a challenge for the controllers, because planes will be coming and going all over.

You've got the wrong idea, basically you're looking for the HTC, which takes a ton of coordination, work, and scheduling to accomplish. 3-8 airports is a ton of controllers you've got to have online for an event. The idea here is to staff and keep one airport busy for 2-3 hours straight. We all seem to enjoy controlling and flying more when there's other airplanes around to look for and avoid, so here's more details on the idea.

 

I'd rather see a hub turn type of event. Pick a major airline hub and staff it, let pilots fly in from any and all airports, and then turn around and depart for any other airport. Ideally the first 90mins would be arrivals, with the following 90mins for departures.

Let me clarify the "Connection Confusion".

Staff ONLY the hub airport and center. Leave all the other airports unstaffed (or via center inside airspace). So the staff for the event would be something like ZDC, PCT_A (Potomac Approach), IAD_T, IAD_G, IAD_CL. This means less controllers sitting around waiting on only an aircraft or two to control every hour, therefore less controllers required to be online. Since this event is a smaller scale and shorter timeframe than the HTC it could be done as a regular event, every 3-6 weeks. This event might get to the point of requiring 2 ground and/or local controllers. Provided pilots aim for the arrival and departure windows, scheduled departure times should not be used or required.

 

If you want to fly LAX-CLT then you have to plan your LAX departure to arrive with the rest of the arrivals, if you depart DCA-CLT you can leave later, or RDU-CLT basically as soon as the controllers log in. This would provide more realistic complexity for controllers and pilots. I guess this is more like the HTC but less structured and easier to do without having to staff all of the outlying airports. It also allows the "Heavy and High" group to plan a little more closely the route and time they fly.

The goal of the pilots should be to land at the hub airport within the arrival period. Ideally this means checking in with center at event start not more than 30mins flying time from the airport. The goal is for the controllers to be online for only 2-3 hours for the event, and pilots to have the option to fly as long or as short of a route as they would like to arrive and depart the hub city within the guideline times. Arrival and departure windows could even be shortened to 60min windows, to try and pack the traffic in closer.

 

For example, with something like a B767 or CRJ7

LAX-IAD is 4hr 25min flight so that pilot should take-off from LAX about 4hrs prior to event start

MSP-IAD is 1hr 45mins, depart MSP about 90mins prior to event start

BOS-IAD is about 45mins enroute, so shortly before event start

PHL-IAD is short enough to depart at even start time and still make the arrival window

If you can't leave that far ahead of event start, don't forget you can always spawn in cruise flight outside of center airspace. Or just pick a closer departure point.

 

 

The idea is that no airplane spawns at the hub airport, everyone flies in and out during the event timeframe. Every airplane should have about 20+ minutes on the ground for realistic turn around time, and the ability of the virtual passengers to make connections. It's kind of an airline motivated event, but restricting it to only that isn't really required.

[Evan Reiter]

I'm not sure we'd be able to feature KSAN for a Pack the Pattern event; with one runway, it wouldn't really allow for much in the way of VFR traffic and consequently wouldn't be able to appeal to everyone. However, SAN is featured in a number of Rc events and we will continue to feature it.

 

Pp at KMCI has been done. We can do KDEN.

 

Luke's idea sounds a lot like the Pack the Pattern event. We already have a lot of people that fly into and out of the event. I think it takes away from ATC and the atmosphere we're trying to create because, unless we have 40-50 people doing it, ATC will be busy for the few minutes of arrivals and departures and bored while we sit waiting for the traffic to land and turn around.

 

The HTC events have generally been less successful than other events, which is why we have cancelled them. Similarly, events that are overly complicated or feature too many weird restrictions tend to drive away traffic, which is why we haven't done a second Boston Marathon event.

[Tom Guerrette]

Boston Marathon event.

hmmmm

[Guest Lucas Kaelin]

Luke's idea sounds a lot like the Pack the Pattern event. We already have a lot of people that fly into and out of the event. I think it takes away from ATC and the atmosphere we're trying to create because, unless we have 40-50 people doing it, ATC will be busy for the few minutes of arrivals and departures and bored while we sit waiting for the traffic to land and turn around.

 

Maybe we should do PP more frequently. I always miss it due to my work schedule. Or do a rotating event schedule? Every time an specific event happens put it on a different day of the week. That way you don't always have the same people doing the RC, PP, DJ, etc. Hopefully this would shake up the event schedule a little, adding more variety to the events.

Example, 1st RC of June on Mon, 2nd on Tue, 3rd on Wed, and so on.

[Evan Reiter]

We already do the Pp more than all the events except the Regional Circuit. Trying to do it more often -- as we have for the past few months -- has reduced the attendance at some of the events. It seems people get a little tired of that event if it happens once every two weeks (or more often).

 

All of our events except the Regional Circuit rotate. The GA Fly-In is often on a weekend, but not always, and often on different days. The Dj and Pp events change days each time; the last Pp was a Thursday, the next is on Monday.

[Larry Wilkinson]

I miss most events due because I work out of town and only home on weekends. Then the Sunday events are usually in the afternoon when I getting in my cross country time in the real thing.

I would like to see an PP event every once in a while on a Sat or Sun night. Like the old saying, you can please some of the people some of the time, but not all the people all the time.

I am sure someone will eventually come up with a new and exciting event that will bring pilots and controllers together for a night of fun. So don't give up on throwing out the ideas.

 

See ya in the air,

 

773BA,

 

Formaly 9188G, They went and replaced my favorite airplane.

[Evan Reiter]

I would like to see an PP event every once in a while on a Sat or Sun night. Like the old saying, you can please some of the people some of the time, but not all the people all the time.

Done. The next Pp after KLAS will be held on a Sunday night.

[Tim Brett]

I would like to see an PP event every once in a while on a Sat or Sun night. Like the old saying, you can please some of the people some of the time, but not all the people all the time.

Done. The next Pp after KLAS will be held on a Sunday night.

 

But where? I'm already excited!

[Tom Guerrette]

We should all guess and see who can get the closest!