Challenge

[Chris Raabe]

Per the latest informer. Dibs on an F-18 slot for the DC challenge! Lets hope I wont be TDY for it though......

[Devon Hathaway]

I'm with boomer

[Evan Reiter]

We'll probably have a few mil boys stationed at Andrews ready for a quick response to anyone who busts the ADIZ/FRZ/SFRA. Would that be the best place to station aircraft? How many do you think are needed? Is someone interested in potentially setting up a Tower there (or is that even needed)? Thoughts on how we'll communicate an emergency situation to you?

 

Also: what frequency would military plan to be on, how many jets/intercept, and what happens once someone has been intercepted?

 

If you want to give me a few paragraphs to add to the event description around intercept orders I'd be happy to include them.

[Devon Hathaway]

Evan, off the top of my head i can't think of anything that would MAKE users want to adhere strictly to the SFRA other than if you bust it you get intercepted with the possibility of being booted but i see that having a somewhat negative effect. Offering points for certain things and having points deducted for messing those things up, and busting the SFRA means getting intercepted and escorted to Edwards which will end in pilot being disqualified...but you have it in the information on Challenges that its not to offer points so i guess thats a no-go.

 

In the end run i see some pilots being idiots on purpose and with it being a virtual flight they really don't care if we intercept them and tell them to land because there is no consequence like there is in the real world, and as much as i love to fly my jet around i really don't want to deal with non-cooperative people.

 

VRS has the beloved TACPAK in beta testing but even as such only other people with the VRS would see it as an F-18 and only other VRS planes would have the coding that would end the session with a successful missile hit for not cooperating...such are the poor constraints of FSX :(

[Guest Lucas Kaelin]

If aircraft violates ADIZ/TFR

ATC broadcast on all published frequencies for aircraft, including UNICOM & guard.

Assign confidence maneuver (turn due north/south/east/west, >30 degrees from current course, ask for altitude change of >1000ft)

Aircraft fails to comply with ATC instructions to exit restricted airspace or does not respond

Military intercept (via alternate non-published frequency)

Force landing at designated non-event field, confiscation of aircraft (typically force to Frederick KFDK or Gaithersburg KGAI)

Failure to comply results in shootdown (aka kick and temporary 15+ minute ban)

Mandatory fine for aircraft in violation ($5+ donation to server) regardless of forced landing or kick/ban

 

F-16 Fighters are typically stationed at Andrews KADW, however, Navy support (F-18's) should be based at Patuxent KNHK (aka Pax River). You shouldn't need a tower controller at either of the military airfields because in the event of a SCRAMBLE call all they do is clear everyone else out of the way of the intercept aircraft. Since there shouldn't be anyone using the military airfields, no need for tower controllers there.

 

Just my $.02

[Guest george bruton]

Looks like im going to be giving alot of 5'ers away.....

[Evan Reiter]

I like the idea of everything but the mandatory fine which may not work for people without credit cards (and we probably can't enforce). I like the idea of disqualifying pilots who are intercepted and have to get forced to a different airport or who are ejected/shot down although I'm not sure from what.

 

Sounds like we have a good set of ideas to work from when we put the event together.

[Guest george bruton]

I like the idea of everything but the mandatory fine which may not work for people without credit cards (and we probably can't enforce). I like the idea of disqualifying pilots who are intercepted and have to get forced to a different airport or who are ejected/shot down although I'm not sure from what.

 

Sounds like we have a good set of ideas to work from when we put the event together.

 

 

So you are saying as long as we do not get intercepted or forced down it is fair game.......?

[Evan Reiter]

I like the idea of everything but the mandatory fine which may not work for people without credit cards (and we probably can't enforce). I like the idea of disqualifying pilots who are intercepted and have to get forced to a different airport or who are ejected/shot down although I'm not sure from what.

 

Sounds like we have a good set of ideas to work from when we put the event together.

 

 

So you are saying as long as we do not get intercepted or forced down it is fair game.......?

You will be intercepted and shot down either way.

[Guest John Girard]

Evan, will the zones be in effect during the upcoming DCA/Norfolk Regional event? Reading about the zones in preparation for the Challenge event, I just learned (what you guys already know) that GA aircraft are completely banned within the DC FRZ which would preclude any GA traffic in/out of DCA. (They don't even allow R/C model planes!)

[Dan Perrone]

Evan, will the zones be in effect during the upcoming DCA/Norfolk Regional event? Reading about the zones in preparation for the Challenge event, I just learned (what you guys already know) that GA aircraft are completely banned within the DC FRZ which would preclude any GA traffic in/out of DCA. (They don't even allow R/C model planes!)

 

The zones shall be in effect for all upcoming events.

 

Incorrect, GA aircraft are not banned from the FRZ. The "Maryland 3" airports within the FRZ are all general aviation airports. What sets the FRZ apart from the SFRA, is the numerous additional restrictions on the types of flights which may be conducted within that airspace. The restrictions include:

• Flight Training (incl. practice instrument approaches)
  
• Aerobatic Flight
  
• Glider Operations
  
• Parachute Operations
  
• Ultralight, hang gliding, and all ballooning operations
  
• Agricultural/crop dusting
  
• Banner towing
  
• Maintenance test flights
  
• R/C Aircraft
  
• Unmanned aircraft
  
• Any aircraft operations from a ship or private yacht
  
• VFR Traffic Patterns

 

In essence, the FRZ is a "VFR No-Fly" area unless you have a waiver from the FAA for otherwise illegal flight operations. The Maryland 3: College Park, Potomac Airfield, and Washington Executive are all accessible to VFR flights, provided these flights are direct to or from these fields. I.e., all VFR general aviation flights into or out of the FRZ may only be direct entry or egress. There is no loitering within the airspace.

 

There are a number of TSA and FAA restrictions and regulations which must be passed in order to fly VFR within the FRZ, but for BVA purposes, here's what you need:

• A valid FRZ VFR flight plan which has been appropriately filed, and opened, prior to entering the FRZ. VFR flight plans for the FRZ or the SFRA CANNOT be filed while you are already in the air! This means that you cannot depart these uncontrolled fields or enter the FRZ without first opening your previously filed flight plan and obtaining a discrete squawk code from ATC, and be squawking this code prior to liftoff, or entry to the FRZ. You must also establish two-way radio communication with ATC prior to entry.
  
• You must be able to accept ATC routing instructions. Aircraft inbound to either Hyde (W32) or Potomac (VKX) will be routed into the FRZ via either the Nottingham VOR or the Maryland Airport. College Park in-bounds will be routed via Freeway Airport.
  
• Outbound aircraft will comply with ATC routings till clear of the FRZ and SFRA, while continuing to squawk their assigned code.
  
• All IFR aircraft departing one of the Maryland 3 must obtain ATC clearance prior to departure, comply with departure instructions, and stick to their assigned course.
  
• NOTE: Squawking 1200 at any time WILL result in an intercept by units acting on behalf of Homeland Security. In our case, BVA military members.

If you want more information on FRZ and SFRA operations, stay tuned. We're working up a pilot and ATC briefing package to give you all the details.

[Guest John Girard]

Dan,

 

Thanks for the correction. You are absolutely correct as I had only scanned the info about the FRZ and forgotten about the Maryland 3. You put it all in a nutshell and made it easy to understand. This will be fun. Looking forward to it.

Thanks!

[Evan Reiter]

As Dan said, we're working on a comprehensive briefing document for pilots which outlines very specifically the requirements and procedures to follow. The point of the event will be:

 

1. Read, understand, and follow the procedures we give you

2. Navigate smartly to avoid airspace and show off your understanding of complex, multi-layered airspace environments

3. Multi-task with simultaneous ATC communications and flying the plane

 

The materials for pilots will be available this coming week to allow you plenty of time to review and prepare for what's bound to be an exciting event.

[Chris Raabe]

That going to be emailed out like the informer is or posted on here? I don't know how much time I'll have to check in here before the middle of next week.

[Evan Reiter]

It will be available by Thursday at the latest, posted to this forum thread and linked on the Challenge page of the website.

[Evan Reiter]

The event materials, including the details on the page as well as the NOTAM with detailed information about SFRA procedures, have now been posted: http://www.bostonvirtualatc.com/Events/Challenge.aspx. You need to be logged in to view them. There is a lot of information but despite the length, it's all relatively straightforward. The section "Basic SFRA Requirements" on the page itself really does give you all the information you need to know about flying in the event provided you are already familiar with sectional charts and have a vague idea of what the SFRA is. Settle in for a long haul next time you're online and do a little reading so you're ready for the event on Sunday, September 2 from 3-6pm ET.

 

This Challenge is all about airspace: understanding where you are, what the requirements are to go where you want to, and how to navigate between airports without violating airspace or restricted areas. Most BVA members will never fly into the Washington SFRA in real life. However, many will encounter TFRs which create similar structures or fly through complex, multi-layered airspace environments. If you can manage this airspace (particularly the SFRA transition from KHEF to KESN), you can handle airspace anywhere!

 

In this Challenge, pilots are to fly between the three controlled airports: Manassas (KHEF), which is located within the SFRA, and two outlying airports, Frederick (KFDK) and Easton (KESN). You can fly the route in any order (the route options shown below are examples) but the idea is to operate within the SFRA on each flight, either transiting through it to fly between KESN and KFDK or entering/exiting it to land at KHEF. You'll know you've done everything right if you don't see a military aircraft approaching and rocking its wings to intercept you!

 

If you have questions about the materials, let's make this the official forum thread. Please ASK HERE! We're tried to make the materials as simple as possible and give you links to as much information as we can, but the varying degrees of experience in our community, as well as the compromises we make when trying to simulate the utmost realism, probably mean that we've missed something.

[Guest John Girard]

http://www.aopa.org/flightplanning/arti ... epfrz.html

 

Above is a well written and interesting article about one pilot's preparations and first GA flight into the Washington ADIZ and FRZ. Enjoy.

[Guest Billy Hatchell]

Im a 'new guy' with BVATC that would enjoying participating in the challenge Sunday but I'm still trying to learn how to read VFR charts and figure out all this pilot talk. Most of it I understand but there is some abbreviations being used and some other terms I just dont know. Plus the VFR chart looks like vomit on the ambualnce floor. Im a paramedic in real life. Nice metaphor uh!!!!!!!!! Anyway, because of the difficulty of this challenge and needing more training on VFR charts, should I just participate and an observer.

 

Ditchdr

Billy Hatchell

[Dan Perrone]

Absolutely not! The best part of this community, is that it is filled with others in your situation. We pride ourselves on being one of the best learning communities, and as such, help is always there for those who need it. Check out my post above here:

 

viewtopic.php?p=21747#p21747

 

The event page HERE is also a great resource. We have a Pilot's PDF available for download which will walk you though all of the requirements needed to fly for the event.

 

As for reading the VFR Charts, yes, it looks like a mess to those not accustomed to reading the stuff. If you have any specific questions, either I or any of the others here would be glad to help. Just give us a heads up!

 

If flying the SFRA is truly uncomfortable, we have listed on the event page a few routes which keep you clear of the SFRA for much of the flight. Feel free to try one of those routes!

[Guest James Strauss]

Ditchdr... as SoloWingDemon encouraged you - come on in and participate if you don't have to work your real job. If you're like me, the best way to learn something is to do it. Bottom line is that we are all new here in differing degrees. Aviation is so challenging and dynamic there is never a shortage of new skills to learn or improve on, the ladder never seems to end, which I would argue makes it such a worthy pursuit.

 

Put one of us in the ambulance with you and we would not know where to begin to pitch in and help save lives. Thanks for doing what you do... and welcome to BVA.