[10 March 2016 2000-2300 ET (0100-0500 z)] Regional Circuit hosted by ZDV!

[Clif Whitten]

 

We are excited to announce that we are giving our controllers a little vacation and taking March's Regional Circuit event on the road!

 

The controllers of Virtual Denver ARTCC have offered to host us for a winter wonderland spectacular between Denver (KDEN) and Eagle County (KEGE).  Stay tuned to the Regional Circuit webpage for updates, including preferred routing.

 

I hope that you can join us for, what I hope is, the first in a series of cooperative events with other ARTCCs.  Special thanks to Mark Mayo for the idea that sparked this event. 

[Joshua Bjerke]

I'm very excited about this one!  Rocky mountain (virtual) flying is great, and what a pair of airports to host.

 

A sincere thanks to the events team for working with ZDV on setting this up.  Should make for some great entries into next month's screenshot contest.

 

 

[Krikor Hajian]

This is an awesome idea! I look forward to flying a crowded event in foreign (to me) airspace. Awesome job ZDV and anyone else who helped make this happen!

[Evan Reiter]

The Regional Circuit hits the road! Based on a suggestion from one of our members, we're working with the Denver ARTCC (ZDV) for tonight's Regional Circuit. Denver (KDEN) and Eagle County (KEGE) are featured from 8-11pm ET. Spawn in at either airport, or fly into the event, and transport the last few skiers of the season up to the hills.

 

Airport Updates for Eagle County (KEGE) are available as part of a package of Colorado airports. Please download the updates (if you run FSX or FSX:SE) and install them before flying the event.

 

This is our first Regional Circuit on the VATSIM network being held outside of our own ARTCC. Please share your experience and feedback here on our forums after the event as we determine whether this format and concept can continue at other airports across VATSIM.

[Evan Reiter]

I wasn't able to attend the event (work) but I've heard some early feedback from a few of the guys who were up late last night.

 

Very interested to see what others have to say. How did the event go? How did it compare to some of the recent Regional Circuits that we have hosted in ZBW? Is the "on the road" concept something we should continue to explore with ZDV and/or with other facilities?

[Krikor Hajian]

I think the fact that it was a class D facility added to some of the problems experienced. I know that ZDV simulates non-radar class D towers as they would be in real life, one in one out. I couldn't tell if this was being done but based on the fact that the 12nm between me and the guy ahead of me wasn't enough for them, that's my guess. Also, the tower needed IFR releases as per the norm out of a D, but the overlying center controller was so busy that some people were in the line short of the runway for over an hour. Many people (myself included) shut down the engines to conserve fuel because of how long a wait it looked like it would be. I think it was an interesting idea, but I saw a lot more 737-airliner type traffic than we do at home Regional Circuits and I was a little disappointed: the whole reason we do these events is for the GA traffic, not more 737's. The controlling in general aside, I think ZDV wasn't prepared to experience this level of concentrated traffic on such short a route. I had an enjoyable time, but for those people who spent 2/3 of the event holding short of the runway, or trying to cross it, this probably was a big let down. I personally like the BVA ones a little bit more, just because it's interesting to learn more about local procedures in depth and show some of the smaller, class C and D facilities some love. That said, if we can get reliably high quality ATC in other ARTCC's, I'm not opposed to that either.

[Lantz Wagner]

As this was mostly my first Regional Circuit I'd really participated in, I can't give a comparison to the earlier ones. I do agree that I saw a lot of airliners participating. I think my Cape Air C404 was a bit of a "thorn in the side" of the controllers so I got quite a few vectors on both legs of my round robin KDEN KEGE KDEN flights. My first experience with the 3 mile taxis at KDEN. They had me line up and wait on 34L for a bit and then gave me a reroute using a departure procedure, which I had to look up, read, then get loaded into the GTN750 while others waited behind me. After departure, flying the procedure, I took quite a while trying to figure out how it joined my route for the "then as filed" part of my clearance. As anyone that flew could tell, ATC was very busy. The wait on the ground with engines running for takeoff at KEGE was a bit excessive but not unrealistic with today's flow control. I probably should have started at KEGE and flew against traffic.

On the hole, I thought it was very successful and I learned a bit more while gaining much needed experience. Plus 2 more logged Cape Air flights!

 

 

Lantz

[Guest John Dunn]

The event was enjoyable overall. Lately, when I'm not flying in the northeast, I'm usually between KDEN/KEGE/KASE/etc. so I was quite familiar with the route and recognized one or two of the controllers' voices. The ATC is generally pretty sporadic in Colorado, so it was nice to have all the coverage for a few hours. The guys out there usually do a pretty good job with ATC, but I think with the volume tonight a few of them may have been overwhelmed.

 

I started at the south cargo ramp at KDEN in my usual Dash-8, and was initially given nearby rwy35L for dep. which was nice of them(the atis departure runway was on the other side of the airport). Once holding short and ready to go, however, they decide to change runways on me since "35L is actually closed". I understand they had it set as an arrival runway, but with only 1 aircraft inbound, it shouldn't have been a big deal. No matter...

 

After departing off of 25 I climbed to 10k and flew runway heading for what seemed like forever before getting vectors north to join the departure. The guy in front of me was in the same situation, and was "about to run into a mountain" before pleading for a turn north.

 

After vectors north and then "direct ZIMMR", i was right back to vectors for spacing. no problem. i get it, there's a lot of people..... after an effective 360 degree loop(and almost back to denver) i was back to direct ZIMMR. then a left turn back east again....then direct FOOOT, i mean ZIMMR. .......ok finally over to denver center.....

 

One more set of vectors for spacing with Denver center and cleared for the LDA-25 approach into Eagle. No problems here.......until....

 

~6 mile final. cleared to land behind another guy. he lands.....the guy waiting to TO is told to lineup and wait...... "Disregard, hold short rwy 25"......"too late i'm already on the runway".....oh well...He's then cleared to takeoff and i get a "go-around"(with no heading/climb, just "contact denver center") <1 mile from the runway. So i begin flying the missed approach (which is initially straight ahead) while the other guy is taking off right underneath me........ ??? ???mmmkayyy....... Denver center also has no vectors and just tells me to fly the missed approach. He has a hard time hearing me of course, as my TCAS is going apeshit. As i begin to enter the holding pattern i finally receive vectors north(almost to Wyoming) for some more spacing, then cleared for the approach again. (At this point, "the one, the only DAL213" whom had left Eagle just prior to my first approach, is on his was back from Denver and I get in line just in front of him.)

 

On the ground 1hr24m after takeoff for what is normally a ~30 minute flight. No complaints, just thought i'd share. I understand ATC was busy and those guys don't get nearly as much traffic/volume/practice as the ZBW/ZNY area. I had fun, and I suppose practicing a totally unexpected missed appch. and holding entry was a plus. I'd be happy to do it again tomorrow.

 

-JD

[Sean Doyle]

I wasn't available but it sounds like it's time to coin the phrase:

 

"Ain't no party like a BVA party"

 

;D I'll see myself out

[Joshua Bjerke]

As I posted previously, after the announcement was made, I was really looking forward to the event.  I like the idea of getting out of BVA airspace once in a while, and also happen to have FlightBeam KDEN, and ORBX KEGE...  so this was excellent.  Unfortunately, my wife was on business in CA this week, and my son came down with a bug.  So my time last night was limited to after he went to bed.

 

But...  my two cents...

 

1) Yes, ZDV was very busy and overwhelmed.  I don't fly outside of ZBW very much, because our ATC is always online!!  Why fly on VATSIM if no one is around.  Kudos to ZBW for keeping our airspace well staffed, and with a high quality level.

 

I do have to say though; I did some poking around the ZDV website, went to their forums and noted that the original post from December stated that we were looking for someone to host an event like this.  The post noted that we typically get ~20 pilots from our group plus some others.  Is that actually true??  I've only been a BVA member since October, and have flown in each of the regional events since MHT <-> SYR that month.  Seems that there is a lot more than 20 pilots, plus others.  Maybe it just seems like more traffic.  But I'm not sure we gave them an entirely accurate heads up...?  Just a thought for future events - here and in other areas.

 

2) We should definitely do this again, if possible.  Again, I like to get outside of our airspace once in a while and having a time that controllers are available is great.  When VATSIM/VATUSA posts these events, it is likely a big draw since you know when it will be staffed.  And FlightBeam and ORBX are very popular developers and these are very scenic airports.  I'm probably not the only one with these scenery add-ons, and others probably thought it was a great night to take advantage of flying a couple of high quality airports in amongst some interesting terrain.

 

3) I cannot, and will not, speak for our events team or our ATC staff...  but have we offered to do an event for the Denver group in our airspace?  First, give an opportunity back to them.  Second, demonstrate our capabilities.  Not from a boastful perspective, but there was a distinct difference between our group and ZDV.  Delays, missed handoffs, etc aside, I heard many questions of KDEN GND and TWR that our group would have handled without a blink.  Particularly when you watch/listen to the recent Ground Schools that have been done and published.  Questions really seemed to throw these guys off, and our ATC doesn't seem to have an issue with questions at all.  Maybe there is an opportunity here for our leadership to help them out?  We clearly have a very talented group of controllers and trainers.  I've seen regional circuits at smaller airports with much more dense traffic, and GA fly-ins that are nearly ridiculous for the size of the field.  Yet with just small corrections and spacing, they are handled very well.

 

 

At the end of the event, it really highlighted the quality of the BVA ATC staff.  Through all levels of coverage, we really have a top notch group.  Thanks for putting such effort into this community and making it as great as it is, and for clearly setting the bar as high as you do!

 

Also, thank you to the events staff for setting this up.  Despite the hitches, I'd do it again in Denver, or where ever else we can line it up.  Thanks  for putting in the effort to set these up, both at home and on the road.

[Camden Bruno]

But I'm not sure we gave them an entirely accurate heads up...?  Just a thought for future events - here and in other areas.

 

Yes, this is true. Generally we have about 20-30 BVA pilots participating, and that is what we told ZDV. However, we also warned them of the fact that, with any staff-up, if VATSIM pilots see an entire airspace staffed, they will naturally come. Considering they were originally only planning to staff 3 positions, I think ZDV simply under-estimated the level of traffic and workload that was going to be present.

 

have we offered to do an event for the Denver group in our airspace?

 

This could be a possibility, however, you have to keep in mind that all other ARTCC's within VATUSA are solely controller-based. That said, we could offer but there would be no pilot group attending, it'd be all controllers. From what I've experienced, the only real way to learn air traffic controlling is to be on the scope, not necessarily experiencing it from a pilots perspective. In my personal opinion, I believe the best way to give constructive criticism is to leave feedback advising them of some of the issues you witnessed. Then, with that feedback, the staff team can focus in on some of the main problems that were experienced throughout the duration of the event. It's an extremely nice thought to offer a learning experience for them, but I'd be worried that we may be overstepping our bounds.

 

At the end of the event, it really highlighted the quality of the BVA ATC staff.  Through all levels of coverage, we really have a top notch group.  Thanks for putting such effort into this community and making it as great as it is, and for clearly setting the bar as high as you do!

 

Also, thank you to the events staff for setting this up.  Despite the hitches, I'd do it again in Denver, or where ever else we can line it up.  Thanks  for putting in the effort to set these up, both at home and on the road.

 

And thank you to pilots like yourself who are able to recognize mistakes, give constructive criticism, but at the same time see the positive side and make it a learning experience for those involved. People, such as yourself, are what makes this community what it is. Additionally, the positive attitudes and ability to always see the bright side makes our role as administrators a whole lot easier. We appreciate the fact that you recognize our controllers as high quality and thank you for being open-minded to doing a similar getaway event in the future, despite some of the hiccups.

 

Thank you again,