Recreating "The Hump"

[Guest Grant Williams]

Found this, looks interesting. I'm downloading it to see what its all about.

 

http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/fslib.php ... d=19879502

 

If that doesn't work search the file name: cbix.zip

[Chris Raabe]

Maybe this could be coordinated through the A-team so it gets more visibility. Not everyone checks the forums...

[Guest Grant Williams]

Maybe this could be coordinated through the A-team so it gets more visibility. Not everyone checks the forums...

 

I almost said that. But, my only fear with that, is having the A-Team take over and make it more of an "event" instead of a community created and driven group flight. However, I think that it could be an awesome yearly event, like Jon suggested.

 

I've also noticed that very few people check the forums... unfortunately.

 

Jonathan, what kind of time-frame do you think we should be looking at? And did you guys all check out the file I sent the link too? Its pretty legit, and I think you will find it very useful especially, Jon.

 

My number one wish for this: Keep it community driven!

[Chris Raabe]

If you coordinate with the A-team they will let the community do everything. They won't take the reigns. They just might have more resources to get this going in the right direction. I'd suggest pming an Ateam member and asking. Worst they can say is no and we keep it here in the forums

[Guest Grant Williams]

If you coordinate with the A-team they will let the community do everything. They won't take the reigns. They just might have more resources to get this going in the right direction. I'd suggest pming an Ateam member and asking. Worst they can say is no and we keep it here in the forums

 

Oh! I figured they would try to take the thing over and make it more of a Boston Virtual thing, rather than a member driven thing. If you think they would be a good resource, I will definitely message one of them!

[Devon Hathaway]

Oh! I figured they would try to take the thing over and make it more of a Boston Virtual thing, rather than a member driven thing. If you think they would be a good resource, I will definitely message one of them!

 

The VFR Challenges are driven by Luke (shyflyguy) who is not an A-team member or admin...Just an fyi

[Guest Grant Williams]

Oh! I figured they would try to take the thing over and make it more of a Boston Virtual thing, rather than a member driven thing. If you think they would be a good resource, I will definitely message one of them!

 

The VFR Challenges are driven by Luke (shyflyguy) who is not an A-team member or admin...Just an fyi

 

Did not know that! I emailed Evan about this to see what he thought and what kind of support they could offer up. Thanks for the help!

[Guest Grant Williams]

Too late, the A Team heard about it and they're shutting down the forum. We'll only be able to participate in the event if we buy tickets, they said.

 

I'm hoping that's sarcasm? haha

[Guest Grant Williams]

Nice map. What aircraft did you download? I downloaded a C46ga.zip from Flightsim... and hated it. So, I think I'm going to stick with the C47 for now. Recommend trying that one out.

 

In regard to radio beacons, I was under the impression they used ADF?

 

-Grant

[Guest John Girard]

Jonathan, you are correct about the radio beacons. I should have said that the beacons were only for approach. For nav, they used, for instance, the Chabua Armed Forces Radio Network station on 400KC.

[Guest Mike Pare]

This sounds like a great idea you have Grant!

 

It's led me to reading and searching for information on the internet all night.....and.....

 

Here is default Chabua (VE30)...

 

Hard to find much else of archival relevance, but here is Chabua circa 1944

 

And after an hour or two of messing around and beating FSX Chabua with a ball peen hammer....

 

sorry for the smallish pictures. I was hurrying this post and didn't feel like messing with the image sizes.

 

Anyhooo...I could spend a little time to help improve Chabua for an event like this. There's LOTS more I could do to that scenery, but it's getting late so I'll leave it for another night, if this is something you think might be wanted.

 

Maybe some other scenery savvy guys could put together some new sceneries for some of the other airports to make the event a little more authentic. I'm sure those pilots didn't have 1.5 mile long asphalt runways to work with :lol:

 

The sceneries would have to be made with default FSX objects so that all users can see it the same. Acceleration library objects or 3rd party objects should be avoided, just to keep it simple.

 

Mike

[Guest Grant Williams]

Fantastic! I think that scenery design would be amazing!

[Guest Mike Pare]

If anyone can find more archival imagery of any of the old airfields, it would be quite useful to help recreate the fields in FSX.

[Guest John Girard]

http://cbi-theater.home.comcast.net/~cb ... _home.html

 

Lots of info, history and photos. Links to other sources.

[Guest Grant Williams]

Great link John. Lots of cool stuff on there.

 

Just so everybody is aware, I did email Evan from the A-Team and got a great response. The A-Team is available to help in anyway they possibly can! Suggestions for what kinds of things we should ask for help on? I'm thinking once the time comes publicizing the event or group flight, making it well known through the newsletter or something along those lines?

[Guest John Girard]

CBI (China-Burma-Inndia) Theater of WWII was sort of the backwash compared to Europe, Eastern Front, Central Pacific, SW Pacific and N. Africa. Not nearly as much is available in way of historical documents, etc. Good Internet search terms for the Hump Airlift are: CBI, Hump, WWII Airlift, C-46, Assam, Burma, Stilwell, Chang Kai Check, Gen Tunner, ATC, Air Transport Command. Many more. Some of these will give you "back door" entry to Hump Airlift Operations. It's not quite as easy as looking up "D-Day", "Battle of the Bulge", or "Battle of Britain" which are profusely documented in print and on the web.

[Guest John Girard]

In my opinion, Evan and the rest of the A-Team are there to support the rest of us. They have proven to be super at accommodating member requests. They have the ability, experience, organization and resources to get things done while including maximum member participation. I encourage you to include them in your plans and lean on them for help and ideas. I don't think you will be disappointed.

[Guest Mike Pare]

Yeah, I would take advantage of their offer to help by getting the word out to the other members when the time comes. As stated by others, not everyone pays attention to the forums, so an announcement on the website news pane would help you.

 

So..here's where it started last night...

 

and here's where it is at tonight after a couple more hours refining some textures and adding some scenery objects...

 

Couple bonus shots ;)

Watching a DC3 arrive from the tower...

 

Same shot from pilots perspective...

 

And over the ...numbers?...

 

I think the overall ambiance of landing on a dirt strip in India in 1944 is slowly coming together in this project. I'll keep plugging away on it when I have some time. To get the feel of the general purpose of the airfield (fuel and supply distribution base) I'm going to have to patiently fill the area with a mess of gas barrels and random freight objects.

 

So far I've got 18 parking spots into the field. I figure I can easily get 25 or 30 parking spots in there though.

 

Hopefully I have some time to work on this and you aren't planning to start "The Hump" in like a week or something. Comments and suggestions are welcome.

[Guest Grant Williams]

Fantastic work by all! I love the way this is coming together! This is exactly why I came to BVATC. I knew it was a community that worked together, unlike VATSIM where the community is too large and there is too much bureaucracy standing in the way of innovation.

 

Big shout out to Pegger for the scenery! Great work! I think 30 parking spots would be enough, but who knows. If this has a huge turnout, we might need some more ;)

 

I am working on trying to figure out what aircraft are the best for the route. I have found a Freeware C46 which I wasn't necessarily impressed with, but it would work for someone who wants a C46. The C47 I found is fantastic because it has a modernized VC which is modeled off of a later model variant of the DC3 from the 80's. Also, I found another C47 that uses the default DC3 cockpit, but still flies really well and has nice textures for USAF (even though the USAF didn't exist in WWII).

 

This is going to be great fun, and I honestly see this becoming a huge event that circulates on an annual basis.

 

However, I do need some help... in regards to the aircraft that we will be flying. I honestly want to the the first C47 I found with the more modern feel on the trip with me. Because I like the way the VC looks, and how realistic the aircraft is overall. However, I've noticed I get a lot of engine fires... a lot. I don't believe I am mismanaging the engines, but if anyone wants to enlighten me on how I should be leaning the engines, or how I should be keeping the RPM under control? I've never been too clear on how the piston engines operate at high altitude either.. swallowing my pride on that one, but I'm a Flight Sim veteran who spent too much time in jets that had autopilot. ;)

 

Great work guys! I'm thinking of maybe doing a TeamSpeak or Skype conference calls with all of us to see where we stand in preparation for the event.

[Guest Grant Williams]

By the way! The DC-3/C47 is going absolutely nowhere anytime soon ;)

 

[Guest Mike Pare]

I am working on matching up the air routes and listed airfields with modern airports or bases, then I'm going to publish a map. Once I have a list of all the available fields, we can take a look and see which ones need to be "spruced up" a bit.

 

With respect to modern/current airfields, some of them, like Kunming for example, are very new airports that are in completely different locations than the original ATC fields. If we can narrow down a more accurate location for the original fields, I can generate a scenery that is more accurate. I'm browsing through some of the history links provided above to find imagery and history of some of the fields. Unfortunately, like John noted..

CBI (China-Burma-Inndia) Theater of WWII was sort of the backwash compared to Europe, Eastern Front, Central Pacific, SW Pacific and N. Africa. Not nearly as much is available in way of historical documents, etc.

. So I haven't found much more than a couple vague photos and veterans accounts of conditions.

 

My intent is to finish Chabua, then move on to Kunming. I think I know where the original Kunming field was. I think this was it...

https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=kunming&hl=en&ll=24.846156,102.799737&spn=0.017797,0.027874&sll=49.853822,-97.152225&sspn=0.809271,1.783905&hnear=Kunming,+Yunnan,+China&t=h&z=16

 

With the development of the new scenery, I think I should "erase" the new and modern fields from the scenery as well. This is easy to accomplish, and If I bundle the scenery properly, it is easy to revert from the 1944 scenery and back to modern scenery with the use of the scenery library.

 

I can also add NDB beacons along the way too if needed. We can discuss more as the research comes together.

 

I also thought maybe a forum admin should move this thread to "Events"? doesn't matter to me, just thinking it's more likely to be recognized in that forum while the planning is ongoing.

 

And after reading some accounts from pilots in that theater of war, I thought another idea might be to have a couple pilots act as "Bandits" flying zeros in the region. Maybe we could put some simulated risk into the event for the pilots, and perhaps have it set up so that they could risk being shot down on the route? This could be as simple as having their collision setting turned on, so if a Zero flew into them, their flight would be over? I dunno...just a thought to make the mission a little more of a "risk" like it was for the pilots back then. To make it fair, the Zeros would have to embark on their own journeys from japanese airfields, and actually find the hump pilots in the sky.

[Guest Grant Williams]

I love the idea Pegger! And nice find for the original Kunming airport. I wonder if we could recruit some pilots to fly Zeros, they would have to have the Player ID tags turned off to make it more fair realistic however.

 

Jonathan, in regards to the minimum fuel load and bailing... is there scenery for rice paddies? LOL

 

Any thoughts on the C47 engine fire crisis I was asking about?

[Guest Grant Williams]

Haha! Well, I'm a young buck. Grew up in the 21st century. I like modern! hahaha

 

Its a real life VC. Looks exactly like the re manufactured DC3s that I showed in the YouTube video I posted the link too. For all intents and purposes... we could always not turn it on? Also, I never pushed the engines into the red. Always have them in the green per the checklist.

[Guest Grant Williams]

There is another C47 I found that uses the default DC3 Cockpit? That way its not so modern... We could use that..

 

Or, if anyone else wants to drop the money on it... I GUESS I would be willing to as well. We could go with the JustFlight DC3 which comes with a nice C47 variant. Very realistic and old school.

 

http://www.fspilotshop.com/just-flight- ... -3018.html

[Guest Mike Pare]

It will be tough to force the use of any specific aircraft, but a list of good freeware ones is a good start for those who wish to embark on a realistic recreation of the journeys. Note too that it was common practice to use B24 liberators for the cargo run too. The liberators would be loaded with gas barrels in the bomb bays, then flown into china. At china they would remove the gas barrels and load bombs for bombing runs on japanese targets.

 

There are a couple B24 freeware models available. Don't know myself if they are any good.

 

As for minimum fuel, it was common practice to load the tanks to maximum, then throw in as much cargo as possible for the delivary flight. Upon arrival in china, the cargo came off, and the fuel tanks were drsined leaving only enough fuel for the return flight.

 

This had many unfortunate implications for some crews . For one, they had to take off and climb to 29000 feet fully loaded. Then if they were spotted by the japanese, they had no defense other than evasive maneuvers until the japs had to bug out because of their own low fuel situation. If they got shot at, they became flying incindiaries. I've read a couple accounts from pilots who were attacked , and finished the flight with gasoline pouring all over the inside of the plane from bullet holes. If they ever took a tracer round, they risked becoming instant fireballs.

 

Anyhow, development of your event is proving quite interesting from a historical research standpoint. Keep up the efforts fellas, and hopefully yhis csn be seen through as a challenging ang very interesting event.